tax man? >> don't put it all on steve. >> i don't mind lowering your taxes as long as you're willing to have me lower your benefits because the numbers -- ultimately the math has to add up. joe, you are the great deficit hawk of all time. >> i am. >> you believe we should not be incurring this debt, so we've got to do something. >> right. >> what is that something? we have an aging society with a large commitment to social welfare programs that the public does not want to see materially reduced. you may want to, but the polls say the public does not want to see them materially reduced. >> by the way -- >> where is all this money going to come from? >> it's not about what i don't want or want. this is basic arithmetic. the deficit, the debt that is incurred by medicare and medicaid in the out years, it just can't be made up, even in a small part by increasing taxes on the margins anymore. i mean, you could take the tax rate up to 95%, perhaps. >> well, you don't have to go that high. the math h